Blackmores ISO Consultancy Service: The creators of isology®

If you are going for certification, or currently manage a certified ISO Management System, then you should also be aware of ISO 17021 ahead of any Assessments or Surveillance audits conducted by an accredited Certification Body.

ISO 17021 sets out requirements for bodies providing audit and certification of management systems. It ensures that Certification Bodies provide a reliable assessment of compliance with the applicable requirements, carried out by a competent impartial audit team, to achieve a consistent result for all clients.

So, why should you be aware of this Standard in particular? ISO 17021 also establishes what you as a client should expect from your Certification Body.

Steve Mason, Managing Consultant at Blackmores, joins Mel to discuss what ISO 17021 is, why you should be aware of it and the requirements related to expected service delivery from Certification Bodies.

You’ll learn

• What is ISO 17021
• The difference between accredited and non-accredited certification bodies
• A brief overview of the Standard and client related requirements

Resources

• isologyhub
• International Accreditation Forum
• ISO 17021

In this episode, we talk about:

[01:40] Why are we talking about ISO 17021 now? In our internal Team Meetings, Certification Bodies are an established talking point. Highlighting the good and the bad, but in recent months it’s been more on the negative side. Steve had highlighted ISO 17021 as the Standard to look at in regard to expected service delivery requirements from Certification Bodies – so here we are!

[03:00] What is ISO 17021? The reason for the standard is that it ensures that all certification bodies are delivering the same level of service to all customers. Certification Bodies don’t need to be certified to other standards such as ISO 9001, as ISO 17021 was specifically designed for the purpose of delivering certifications.

It’s also the standard where you can find out what’s expected of Certification Bodies – like a Terms and Conditions or service level agreement.

[05:00] The difference between accredited and non-accredited Certification Bodies – Go back and watch episode 19 to learn more.

[06:10] Why is it important that the Certification Body is accredited? –  Accreditation proves that the Certification Body is being checked by another body. Accreditation is also recognised worldwide – it’s trusted as a gold standard of performance. There are many different accreditation bodies around the world, here in the UK it’s UKAS, but there are others such as ANAB in the US. Check out the International Accreditation Forum website to confirm the accreditation body for your country.

[08:10] Ultimately, a Certification Body can’t offer accredited certification services unless they’ve actually been assessed by the applicable accreditation body to ISO 17021, and they need to do that on an ongoing basis like any other certification.

They also may not be accredited to deliver every standard they offer – so make sure you verify with the certification body that they are in fact accredited to ISO 9001, ISO 27001 ect.

[09:15] A brief overview of what’s included in ISO 17021 – A lot of the clauses before this are really about the management of certification body, but when it comes to clause 9, this is where the customer becomes a lot more involved in the requirements. It covers topics such as planning audits, conducting audits, certification decision making, maintaining certification, the appeals process, the complaints process and then keeping client records.

Clause 9 in particular is where you, as a client, should focus.

[11:00] What core principles are described in ISO 17021? – Impartiality, competence, responsibility, openness, confidentiality, responsiveness to complaints, risk based approach and legal responsibilities.

[12:20] What personal behaviors should you expect from your assessor? – In Steve’s experience, he’s seen more and more assessors not living up to the requirements of ISO 17021. This could be for a number of reasons, i.e. they could have an uncooperative client, they may not have had adequate training, perhaps there’s a break down between clients and client managers. Either way, these are a few of the qualities that Assessors should embody: ethical, fair, truthful, sincere, honest, discrete and open-minded.

[14:00] A lack of open mindedness –  Steve had encountered an Assessor that stated ‘This must be wrong because I’ve never seen it done that way’ – which is not open minded in the least. This resulted in a non-conformity which should have never been raised.

ISO 17021, clause 9.4.5 states that any non-conformity raised shall be recorded against a specific requirement in the Standard being audited. Assessors need to take heed not to assess to their preference.

[15:15] Top Tip –  If you get asked a question, then give an answer and they raise that as a non-conformity that you’re unsure as to why it’s being raised – it’s always worth asking the Assessor to show you where in the standard they’re raising the non-conformity against.

It’s a case of clarifying the question and verifying what they’re raising a non-conformity against, and if there’s a justification for it. If there is, then great, they’re doing a great job! If not, it may be the Assessor’s personal bias, and there’s a chance you can get that non-conformity down to an opportunity for improvement.

[17:05] Other expected traits for Assessors to be aware of –  Collaborative: It should be a partnership between the client and Assessor – they want what’s best for you.

Tenacious: This can sometimes be taken too far. For example, if your Assessor it still assessing past 5pm, tell them to go home. If they need more time, then it’s up to the certification body to work that one out.

Other basic traits include: Observational, being perceptive and versatile.

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So this is for our ISO Show listeners that are already certified to ISO Standards, in some cases – not that often, some companies can get really fed up or frustrated with their certification body provider.

Now on the whole, accredited CB’s are great – however over the last 14 years we’ve come across the good, the bad and the ugly too!

So, this podcast is for those companies that maybe looking to switch, so we’ll cover…….

Why companies decide to change CB’s

• Can’t get hold of anyone to help them – inform them of change in business and the CB is not adaptable.

• Frustrated with lack of organisation – not keeping client informed, assessor showing up to audit the wrong standard.

• Their CB is not listening to them

• Not happy with the assessor – No really a hard reason – Just request a different Assessor

• Lack of value – assessor shows up later and leaves at 2.00pm and you don’t get the report for another 2 -3 weeks after chasing.

Why switch?

Because you can – you have a choice

• You are the customer – if you raise your concerns and are not being heard, go to another CB that will look after your every need.
• You may get a more competitive service and costs – example clients grown through acquisition
• You are expanding internationally – need a CB with an international presence

How to switch

1. Here in the UK – If you are certified by a UKAS accredited certification body the switch is free of charge to another UKAS accredited CB.
2. Establish your scope of certification and requirements – sites, services, standards.
3. Review your timings – should it be before or after your next surveillance visit?
4. Get three quotes from accredited Certification bodies – explain you’d like a quote for the period of certification including the recertification costs.
5. Provide your requirements – also explain why you are looking to change CB’s as you want assurance that they will be able to provide you with the service you need.

• Consider –
  • Costs
  • number of assessors for your standards on the payrole,
  • Continuity of assessors
  • Location of assessors and your locations
  • Support
  • Key Account Manager / customer services
  • Experience/reputation in your sector / standards
  • Any value adds i.e. webinars, whitepapers, events.

How we can help? – Free service to send an RFQ to CB’s so you can get comparative quotes. We don’t have an exclusive relationship with any 1 Certification Body, but we can help you gain a quote as a free service we offer. If you need help getting a quote, contact us!

Look out for our directory of recommended CB’s in 2021.

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Fail to prepare, then prepare to fail.  If you don’t want to fail an assessment before you’ve even begun, be prepared.

I’m just going to take you through the top 5 mistakes companies make that can lead to stress and failure – now this isn’t a definitive list – there are of course many things that could go wrong, I’m just going to share with you my 5 favourite blunders that you can very easily avoid.

1. Not informing employees

Yes – pretty obvious, but you’d be surprised to hear how many times a Management systems is just kept to one person and a communications plan has not been implemented to inform all employees.  The best informed employees make the best people to be assessed.

Imagine – you are an assessor and you rock up only to hear an employee when asked about their process say ‘What process? What Environmental Policy?

• Business Continuity Planning – What’s the point in having a BCP if no one know how to how to respond to an incident?
• By not informing employees – As it triggers bad vibes i.e nervous, wary, stressed
• Communication plan – CEO, Champions, agenda of meetings, launch, newsletter updates, online comms i.e. slack

• Not having access to the right people
• The assessor doesn’t need to see every single person.
• Does need to see the key process owners and some representatives from the leadership team.
• Quality – operations, HR, key process owners i.e. heads of functions
• Environment – Facilities Managers, an Environnemental Champion.
• Information Security – IT, back-ups, incident reporting, HR (starters/leavers) and physical security i.e. Office Manager or if you are in services offices – give the person on reception the heads up.
• Make sure you have the agenda for the visits well in advance – all reputable UKAS accredited certification bodies should send this to you weeks in advance – if they haven’t chase it.
• This helps you to ensure that the right people are available at the right time.

• Not having access to your management system

Sounds silly, but you’d be surprised.

• We’ve even come across cases of rogue consultants where the Management system is owned (IP and all) by the consultant – not the company. Scary!
• Make sure you have access to your policies, procedures, documents and templates
• These can be online, displayed, hard copy or audio/visual
• Nothing more embarrassing than missing a key document or you’ve got 3 versions of it, and no one know which is the right one.
• Accessiblity is key – Sharepoint/intranet/wiki’s/dropboc

• Not having access to your records.
• Stage 2 Assessment is a ‘Show and tell’ –make sure the right people and have access to the right records.
• Pre-empt any pitfalls  – a disorganised business will have records all over the place – because there is no structure.
• Also, make sure your supplier records are compliant – one of the main causes of non-conformities in Environmental management and Health and Safety is lack of accurate supplier records
• Waste records, Lift maintenance records, FGas records – most of these aren’t ISO Standards requirements – they are LEGAL requirements.
• Legal register/due diligence

And last but not least……

• Don’t make any assumptions

• Don’t make any assumptions that that your assessor will know your business inside out – they won’t understand your culture, vision, values and USP’s.
• Use this as an opportunity to showcase all the strengths of your business and how well managed it is.  With our clients we’ll always get the representative of the leadership in the room for the kick-off meeting –
• Don’t worry the assessor doesn’t need to be glued to the assessors hip all day every day, 30 mins attendance at the kick-off meeting max is suffice. This shows the business is serious about their ISO Commitment and demonstrates that there is full leadership support and that employees are onboard. 
• Likewise – don’t assume that your assessor knows nothing about your industry – in many cases, if you are in a sector, chances are that your assessor i.e. construction, engineering, manufacturing your assessor has seen the good, the bad and the ugly.
• Take notes, so you can refer back to these – as there can be some valuable observations that an assessor may make which you could take back to your continual improvement process.  Don’t assume that these will be captured in the report at the end of the assessment.

So to recap – the 5 mistakes to avoid in an ISO assessment are……

1. Not informing employees
2. Not having access to the right people on the days of the assessment
3. Not having access to your management system
4. Not having access to your records.
5. Don’t make any assumptions

And don’t forget, these mistakes can easily be prevented if you prepare well before an assessment.

In the words of Benjamin Franklin, By failing to prepare, you are preparing to fail.

If you need any assistance with ISO standards, contact us!

We’d love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here’s how:Share the ISO Show on twitter or Linkedin

Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

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