Blackmores ISO Consultancy Service: The creators of isology®

Can you believe we’ve been publishing the ISO Show for 5 years now! We certainly can’t!

The ISO Show began back in 2019, following a trip to Cumbria by the host Mel Blackmore. She was, and still is, an avid fan of podcasts and while listening to a few of her favourites on the 4 hour trip, she got to wondering if there were any podcasts about ISO Standards.

As it happened, there wasn’t at the time, and so the idea for the ISO Show was born. Not more than a few months later the first episode went live, and the rest is history.

For the past 5 years, we’ve had the honour of sharing our team’s combined 18 years of knowledge, including amazing insights from our clients and industry experts along the way.

Today Mel Blackmore will reflect on the ISO Show so far and share it’s next evolution as we introduce a new host.  

You’ll learn

• Why was the ISO Show created?
• Why is Mel taking a step back?
• What will be the focus for the future?
• An introduction to the new host(s)

Resources

• Isologyhub

In this episode, we talk about:

[00:30] Join the isologyhub – To get access to a suite of ISO related tools, training and templates. Simply head on over to isologyhub.com to either sign-up or book a demo.

[02:05] Episode summary: After 5 years of the ISO Show, it’s hitting a turning point as we introduce a new host.  

[02:25] An amazing journey – It’s been an amazing 5 years of digging deep into some of the most pressing issues we’ve faced, sharing tips and dispelling myths about ISO Standards.

We’ve explored a lot of topics over the years, including:

• Sharing our ISO 22301 (Business Continuity) knowledge when COVID hit, to help people with future and current response plans.
• Transitioning to new versions of Standards, such as ISO 27001:2022
• Interviewing leaders within the ISO space, such as Kit Oung, who helped to develop the UK’s current energy and climate change regulations.

[04:05] Mel’s sustainability journey – why she’s taking a step back as host – Mel’s made it no secret that her passion lies with Sustainability Standards. This podcast has helped to amplify their importance within our space, but she wants to take this a step further.

Going forward, Mel will be dedicating herself full-time to researching the crucial role of carbon standards in achieving Net Zero emissions by 2050.

[05:00] An evolution for the ISO Show – All this to say, the ISO Show isn’t going anywhere, rather we are introducing a new main host – Ian Battersby!

[05:05] Who is Ian Battersby? – Ian is a senior Isologist here at Blackmores. Ian brings a wealth of knowledge, expertise and a passion for helping businesses raise their game with ISO standards.

He’s a bit of a digital nomad, splitting his time between working from Span and England, he works part-time at Blackmores.

So he is very much involved in the day-to-day understanding of challenges of ISO Management, This includes the frustrations that businesses face and also how ISO standards support the achievement of greater productivity and profitability.

Ian will be introducing himself fully on the next episode 😊

[06:25] Thank you for making the ISO Show such a success! – We’ve now got a few thousand subscribers, with a global reach, we honestly never expected to have so many listeners when we started.

So whether you’re a regular or occasional listener, thank you for being here with us, we truly hope that our knowledge has helped you on your own journey to continual improvement within your own organisation.

[07:25] A long journey – A lot has happened over the past 5 years. In addition to being the CEO of Blackmores, Mel has also developed the isologyhub – an on-line learning platform which helps to raise awareness and understanding of ISO Standards.

She has also founded Carbonology – a sister company that specialises in carbon related Standards, which will be where focuses her main efforts over the next few years.

[07:44] Stepping back – but not gone – While you will be hearing less from Mel, she won’t be completely absent. She will be joining us at least once a month to explore how ISO Standards are shaping the landscape of Net Zero.

She will be sharing her journey to achieve net zero based on academic research, including primary and secondary research on how the various carbon related standards support the Sustainable Development goals and achieving net zero.

This will primarily be diving into Standards such as ISO 14064 (Carbon Verification) and ISO 14068 (Net Zero), in relation to how they support the Sustainable Development Goals, help to create a level playing field, providing transparency, reliability, accountability and without a doubt, credibility.

[09:20] Why the focus on sustainability? – Mel will be studying a masters by researching the role of Carbon Standards Verification in contributing to achieving Net Zero.

This focus hasn’t appeared out of the blue. Mel founded Carbonology with the goal of tacking Net Zero, one business at a time. They’ve already had great success over the past few years’ but there’s still so much more to do when it comes to understanding Greenhouse Gas emission verification, carbon removals, reductions and offsetting.

[10:10] Another big thank you – The ISO Show has been running for the past years with the assistance of Blackmores Communication Manager – Steph Churchman.

Starting from humble beginnings of recording using a mic housed in a shoebox, to being stuffed in a cupboard to combat our offices’ terrible acoustics. We’ve thankfully since upgraded our set-up to something much more comfortable.

Along the way we’ve experienced our fair share of technical issues, as you can’t really go 5 years of recording without something going wrong. However, there wasn’t much we couldn’t work around in some way or another.

As Steph has helped in researching topics we’ve discussed over the years, she will also be joining Ian on hosting the ISO Show in future episodes.  

[12:45] On to the next chapter – It’s not goodbye from Mel, but rather see you later. We’ll be bringing you all along on this next chapter of the ISO Show, so make sure you subscribe to stay up-to-date with our latest episodes.  

If you’d like to book a demo for the isologyhub, simply contact us and we’d be happy to give you a tour.

We’d love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here’s how:

• Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin
• Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

Subscribe to keep up-to-date with our latest episodes:

Stitcher | Spotify | YouTube |iTunes | Soundcloud | Mailing List

Businesses looking to tackle their environmental impact will need to look at how they can reduce their carbon emissions and offset any remaining emissions to ensure that they reach Net Zero.

One of the most common ways businesses offset their emissions is through the purchasing of carbon credits that typically go towards planting trees or re-wilding.

However, there are a number of new emerging trends following on from the current commodification of nature, resulting in an attitude shift from businesses who are looking to get a lot more involved in the offsetting process.

We invited Luke Baldwin, Co-founder and CEO of Nature Broking, back onto the show to explain the latest trends in the carbon market.  

You’ll learn

• What are the latest trends in the carbon market?
• The importance of high integrity within carbon offsetting
• Looking for impactful solutions
• Why education around carbon offsetting is key for long-term sustainability commitment
• How buying carbon credits now can lead to significant savings

Resources

• Nature Broking
• Isologyhub

In this episode, we talk about:

[00:30] Join the isologyhub – To get access to a suite of ISO related tools, training and templates. Simply head on over to isologyhub.com to either sign-up or book a demo.

[02:05] Episode summary: Today Mel is joined by guest Luke Baldwin, Co-founder and CEO of Nature Broking, to discuss emerging trends in the carbon market that help businesses tackle their carbon offsetting.  

[02:50] What are the key trends in the Carbon Market  – As of 2024, Luke states the leading trends as:

• High Integrity
• Impactful solutions
• Education
• Purchase carbon credits now and save later

[04:10] High Integrity – There’s now a lot of carbon credits available and due to the nature of the unregulated carbon markets, it’s led to an increase in bad actors generating revenue in a bad way.

Once example of this is Kariba, a project in Zimbabwe that aimed to tackle deforestation, which was recently exposed in the Guardian and The New Yorker for having incorrect calculations. Credits purchased towards that programme were then called into questions and any associated companies were accused of greenwashing.

To avoid this, businesses are now putting a greater focus on high integrity solutions, which involves considerations such as:

• Are the credits durable? Will the carbon be stored long term?
• Are their significant CO2 benefits?
• Are the credits contributing anything besides just removing carbon? i.e. regenerative agriculture or woodland plantation

[06:20] Impactful Solutions: The carbon markets offers a lot of fantastic solutions and businesses are moving away from the quick commodification of those solutions, and are instead looking to really understand the impact of how they chose to offset their emissions.

It’s becoming more of a question of buying carbon credits that align with your values, whether this be social values or sustainability values.

They’re looking to invest in projects that will have a tangible outcome. Which is exactly what Nature Broking sets out to assist businesses with by tailoring bespoke solutions that adhere to their specific values.

[08:10] Education  – The need for more education around the carbon markets is crucial.

Luke remembers the quote “you can’t love what you don’t know”, which applies as how can a business truly invest in something that they don’t fully understand.

Sustainability is a mindset, and a cultural shift towards more sustainable practices starts with an education.

Carbonology uses an ISO framework, but also provide an education around the carbon reduction plan provided to inspire a mindset shift change towards sustainability.

[09:05] Blackmores experience – Blackmores have been implementing environmental and energy Standards for over 18 years, but it’s only been in recent years that we’ve seen a mindset shift in leadership towards sustainability.

While people may be aware of Standards such as ISO 14001 or B Corp, but may not be aware of other governance frameworks that can help businesses to manage their carbon footprint and carbon neutrality.

[10:20] Join the isologyhub – Don’t miss out on a suite of over 200+ ISO tools, templates and training, sign-up to become a member of the isologyhub  

[12:25] How can you make significant savings when purchasing carbon credits? – A lot of carbon solutions currently are very cost effective, in particualr forestry credits and carbon removal credits.

Some of the more technological ones such as direct air capture or bioenergy and carbon capture and storage can be more expensive now because the technology utilised is still so innovative and in it’s infancy. However, that will change in time.

 If you’re looking at building a carbon portfolio for your net zero journey, for example, say are going through a science based targets initiative and you’ve decided that you cannot avoid the 10% of remaining emissions your net zero journey and you need to buy carbon removals – you’re much better purchasing carbon removals now than in the future.

This is because there will be a supply shortage in future, especially when we see more enforced regulations come into play between 2030 and 2035. This will mean that the price of those carbon credits will rise significantly.

What may cost £20-£30 per tonne for carbon removal now may go up to anywhere between £100 – £150 per tonne!

So it’s worth investing in your carbon portfolio now, especially in the case of tree planting as those tress are going to take a while to grow and actually start storing carbon.

If you finance projects now, you will have already made an amazing impact from the start, and will potentially save yourself a lot of trouble and money in future by planning ahead.   

If You’d like to learn more about Nature Broking and their solutions, check out their website.

If you’d like to book a demo for the isologyhub, simply contact us and we’d be happy to give you a tour.

We’d love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here’s how:

• Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin
• Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

Subscribe to keep up-to-date with our latest episodes:

Stitcher | Spotify | YouTube | iTunes | Soundcloud | Mailing List

The UK is the first major economy to achieve it’s 50% reduction target for Greenhouse Gas Emissions (between 1990 and 2022). However, we’ve still got a lot of work to do to reach our 2023 target of a 68% reduction.

Many businesses are already making great strides to reduce their Impact, and while you can reduce, achieving true carbon neutrality will involve offsetting a certain amount of emissions.

One of the biggest challenges for businesses in terms of completing their offsetting is finding a credible carbon offsetting scheme.

Mel is joined by Luke Baldwin, Co-founder and CEO of Nature Broking, to discuss credible nature-based solutions for carbon offsetting.

You’ll learn

• Who are Nature Broking?
• What is Natural Capital?
• How can we restore nature at scale?
• Financing transition regenerative agriculture through the sale of natural capital
• How have Nature Broking worked with clients to complete their carbon offsetting?
• How can you demonstrate a credible carbon offsetting scheme?
• What projects are Nature Broking currently working on?

Resources

• Nature Broking
• Isologyhub

In this episode, we talk about:

[00:30] Join the isologyhub – To get access to a suite of ISO related tools, training and templates. Simply head on over to isologyhub.com to either sign-up or book a demo.

[02:05] Episode summary: Today Mel is joined by guest Luke Baldwin, Co-founder and CEO of Nature Broking, to discuss credible nature based solutions for carbon offsetting and explore some of the wonderful projects Nature Broking have been involved with.

[04:10] What is natural capital?  – Natural capital is the idea of creating value from nature. What natural capital does is, it encompasses all the things that we get from nature that we rely on. That could be the shelter in your house all the way through to carbon offsets.

[04:55] Who are Nature Broking? – Nature Broking’s story starts off on a somber note. Sadly, Luke lost one of his friends in a mountaineering accident, and in his memory, Luke and another friend rewilded one acre of Scottish Borders Woodlands. This is something they make a point to visit every year, to pay tribute and to keep their living, breathing monument of his friends memory alive and well.

The experience was an eye opening one. For as lovely as the process was, it was incredibly expensive, and not very easy to do. Luke then realised that philanthropy alone wasn’t going to be able to cover the costs of what we required to restore nature.

Looking into the matter further he found that 50% of the world’s GDP is moderately or highly dependent on nature and that the UK, whilst green and beautiful, sits in the bottom 10%.

And so, an idea was sparked. Together his friend and Co-founder Andy started down the nature restoration path and created Nature Broking.

[06:20] What is Nature Broking’s mission?: Nature Broking have 2 major missions:

#1: Help restore nature at scale

#2: Help finance a transition to regenerative agriculture

[06:34] How can we restore nature at scale?  – The UK Government has set targets of halting nature decline by 2030, with a view to increase nature by 2045.

The Green Finance Institute has calculated that there is a funding gap of about 56 billion in order for us to achieve our legally binding environmental targets. That’s a hefty sum to put on public money and philanthropy, which is where private markets and business can make a big impact.

Frameworks like PAS 2060 (ISO 14068) help businesses invest in nature, and with the creation of carbon credits, carbon has been commodified to make it more accessible for businesses to contribute to carbon offsetting.

[08:20] How can we help finance transition regenerative agriculture through the sale of natural capital? – Regenerative agriculture is about restoring the soils, restoring nature back to its original level.

Modern farming techniques, while fruitful, use tools such as fertilisers and mechanised farming that have damaged the soils biome. That’s going to take time and a concerted effort to fix.

Now obviously, we can’t just stop farming, we need food, so not all land can go back to nature. Currently, 70% of the UK is farmed, so the agricultural sector will play a big part in being more regenerative.

However, the current incentives aren’t great, so there’s a lot of work that needs to be done in terms of financing the mechanisms behind it, i.e. funding and subsidies ect. One way we could do this is by ulitilising the carbon markets, as regenerative agriculture can lead to significant carbon sequestration.

[12:20] How do Nature Broking work with clients? – They make sure to work within the bounds of the business itself, as every business is different..

They don’t do off the shelf solutions, preferring to work closely with their clients and help them to really spend time in nature at the place where their carbon credits are being implemented. It’s ultimately about education on the different solutions available, including asking important questions like:

• What impact do you want to have?
• What are the challenges with each solution?
• What do you need to watch out for?

Each solution is tailored to your business. So, if you’d prefer to work in woodland restoration over regenerative agriculture, then Nature Broking would be happy to work with you to achieve that.

Carbon credits include their own set of challenges, one of the main ones being that science changes, so the solutions offered through carbon credits will also change. It may be a case of purchasing credits that tackle different solutions over a large area rather than pooling them all into planting trees for example. Nature Broking are here to help advise and facilitate this.

[15:30] Join the isologyhub – Don’t miss out on a suite of over 200+ ISO tools, templates and training, sign-up to become a member of the isologyhub

[17:45] How can Nature Broking demonstrate credible carbon offsetting? – Nature Broking are at their heart transparent with how they operate. By taking clients to see the actual physical results of their carbon credits, they can educate and help others form a genuine connection to nature. They want clients to truly understand the full impact of their efforts.

 The second element is due diligence, which can be displayed by utilising one of the many carbon related frameworks now available, such as B Corp and Sylvera. Though these don’t always work within a UK setting, so Nature Broking are working towards creating frameworks that do fit within the overall market view.

Lastly, they ensure that the standard they’re using is of high integrity, using frameworks such as the Integrity Council for the voluntary market, which analyses different standards. The 2nd is understanding the quality of the project developer, so looking at their technical expertise, looking at their financial ratings, and then evaluating the individual project itself in terms of potential risks.

[21:50] What are some of the projects that Nature Broking are currently working on? – A broad view of what’s available in terms of schemes include:

• The Woodland Carbon Code
• The Peatland Carbon Code – This is run by the IUCN, which is the International Council for the Conservation of Nature.

They are both defined and funded by DEFRA. These are some of the first carbon codes to move into the UK, however there is a lack of available carbon credits, which should change in future.

Other’s include:

• Wilder Carbon – A carbon code focused on rewilding, run by The Wildlife Trust.
• Carbon Code of Conduct – A regenerative agriculture code, so it focuses on analysing the full sequestration and full emissions potential of a whole landholding.

[25:00] Carbon Credits in practice – There’s a current project called Bank Farm in Kent, which is being used as a test site for regenerative agriculture. This includes the likes of agroforestry, which is where you integrate trees into fields which provide shade for animals and store carbon. So, you’re not removing those fields from production, simply adapting them to be more sustainable.

They’re also practicing mob grazing, which is all about using herbivores to maxmise the amount of carbon stored in the soil. You can do this by moving, say cows for example, around a field to graze quickly on small areas before moving them on.

[27:05] Mel’s conclusion – There’s a huge opportunity in the management of agriculture that can be utilised within carbon credit schemes. In addition to helping our economy by creating new jobs within this new approach to tackling emissions and storing carbon. Hopefully we’ll see larger corporations investing in these sorts of schemes both here in the UK and abroad.

If You’d like to learn more about Nature Broking and their solutions, check out their website.

If you’d like to book a demo for the isologyhub, simply contact us and we’d be happy to give you a tour.

We’d love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here’s how:

• Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin
• Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

Subscribe to keep up-to-date with our latest episodes:

Stitcher | Spotify | YouTube |iTunes | Soundcloud | Mailing List

Did you know that in the UK alone, 22 million pieces of furniture are discarded each year, the majority of which goes directly to landfill. That amounts to an estimated 670,000 tonnes of furniture wasted, where a significant portion could be recycled and reused. (Source)

It’s clear to see the need for a more sustainable approach to furniture design, manufacture and lifecycle, which is where today’s guest, Design Conformity, come in.

Design Conformity live and breathe circular design, the process for creating products sustainably from the beginning, and offer a Life Cycle Assessment Certification Process which has already led to significant carbon reductions.

Mel is joined by Adam Hamilton-Fletcher, Founder and Director at Design Conformity, to discuss the application of circular design within the furniture manufacture industry and explain how their Life Cycle Assessment Certification process can help businesses reduce their carbon footprint.

You’ll learn

• Who are Design Conformity?
• What is circular design and how does it help companies reduce their carbon footprint?
• What are the benefits of Design Conformity’s certification?
• Can sustainability be of financial and environmental benefit to business?
• Examples of circular design in practice

Resources

• The ISO Show
• Design Conformity
• Carbon Calculator
• Circular Design Guide

In this episode, we talk about:

[00:25] Introducing today’s guest – We welcome Adam Hamilton-Fletcher, Founder and Director at Design Conformity, onto the show. Design Conformity are currently setting the standard in retail sustainability, particularly in relation to the furniture industry.

[01:30] Who are Design Conformity? Adam worked in the manufacturing industry for about 15 years, designing lighting systems for major retailers like Boots, Next, Marks & Spencers and Morrisons. He worked primarily with the lighting used in displays, and had been tasked with selling lighting products. In order to do so, he needed to develop a specification to help understand customer requirements, which would then be used to develop their ideal solution.

The problem: There were little to no Standards in UK and Europe for the retail display industry.

Which directly led to the creation of Design Conformity – who started out as an electrical and lighting Standard certification company, that developed into a full carbon certification company.

They aim to become the gold Standard for sustainable furniture design.

[03:10] What is Circular Design? – Circular design is born out of this principle of a circular economy. To compare, a linear economy is when we take a raw material, use it, process it, and then it’s just disposed of, usually straight to landfill.

Whereas, circular economy is where we take that waste product and we design it so that it can be repurposed and refreshed and reused. Those materials can then eventually be recycled – so the goal is to not use any raw materials at any point.

Circular design is the intent to minimise environmental impact, to design equipment that could be reused and repurposed, and then at the end of its life be recycled.

[04:05] How do Design Conformity operate? – Design Conformity look at the way that companies design their furniture and then take them through a learning process (online course).

They help businesses to understand how to design a product in such a way where it can be repurposed or reused, where raw material usage can be reduced and where the shipping requirements can be reduced.

They provide guidance and advice on recommended materials, including the provision on an online carbon calculator.

They also provide reporting in alignment with existing carbon standards, such as ISO 14064, for product evaluation.

[06:55] How can the Carbon Calculator help? By selecting a product of a particular type, you can use the estimator by entering the details of where and what you’re manufacturing, and then it will give you a carbon footprint for that, which you can use to compare that against other industry designers.

It displays these other designers anonymously, but you can get a feel for if your product is above or below the average for carbon emissions. 

[08:55] An example of the Carbon Calculator in practice –  Design Conformity recently worked with Costa Coffee, who were looking to reduce the environmental impact of their of their shops and coffee lounges. The beginning of that process is to work with their manufacturers, to identify the environmental impact of the furniture that they’ve got.

They used the Carbon Calculator to help create an initial benchmark, which highlighted key indicators that can lead to carbon reductions.

[09:35] Design Conformity’s Certification – They’ve borrowed the concept used by existing Energy Performance Certificates, by having a carbon efficiency index, ranging from C1 – C7.

Their score is a bit more unique however as it incorporates elements of circular design. Their score is based on a products total carbon emissions, divided by it’s size and total lifespan. An Ecolabel is then awarded based on the final score.

[11:45] What are the benefits of Design Conformity’s certification?:-

• It’s a mix between carbon reporting and a carbon rating.
• It’s easier for consumers to understand the benefits in comparison to companies that advertise compliance with ISO 14064 and PAS 2060.
• Not just a green label, as reporting is a key component of gaining certification.
• It provides a cradle to cradle analysis on a products carbon footprint and translates that into something that is recognisable.

[14:15] Are businesses right to be skeptical about the value of the cost versus the value of environmental certification?– 100%! It’s not uncommon for eco labels to be more of a marketing tool rather than a tool for tangible carbon reduction. A lot of them out there are unregulated and are contributing to green washing.

That’s where Design Conformity’s differs, as they actually collate and process real data to provide tangible value and add credibility to their claims. 

[16:10] Will there be a time where sustainability can be of financial and environmental benefit to businesses? – Yes, absolutely!  And if there is a way to do that, it’s through Circular Design.

As an example, if you’re a manufacturing company that’s producing shelving, you need to buy in steel, which can fluctuate a lot in price at any given time. But you don’t need to buy more steel every time, where instead you could get your original product back, reprocess and redistribute.

Adam has experience of suppliers who are practicing this, they purchase their products back at 40%-50% of the price, saving a lot of money in raw material!

[19:00] Examples of companies who have embraced circular design –

Tesco: They’ve introduced a policy whereby they purchase metal shelving, use it for 5 years, then take it back out of the store to get powder coated, cleaned and reintroduced to the store. That reduces the carbon footprint by 70% in comparison to buying a new shelving set!

Boots: Their beauty halls wanted to introduce a lot of new brands, which meant a lot more displays were needed. Boots started working with Design Conformity towards earning their certification, specifically in relation to the lighting they used in stores. With Design Confomity’s help, they managed to reduce the carbon footprint at selected stores by 39%!

[21:20] Circular Design Guide – 14 people were involved in creating this guide, which is designed to give you an introduction to and overview of circular design. Access it over on their website.

If you’d like assistance with any ISO Standards, get in contact with Blackmores and we’ll be happy to help 😊

We’d love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here’s how:

• Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin
• Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

Subscribe to keep up-to-date with our latest episodes:

Stitcher | Spotify | YouTube | iTunes | Soundcloud | Mailing List

For those in the ISO Space, you may be very familiar with the term ‘Certification’ in relation to ISO Standards. However, for certain ISO Standards there is a different type of terminology you need to be aware of.

The demand for a more unified and structured approach to reduce carbon emissions has resulted in a few carbon related ISO Standards to be published over the last few years. Standards such as ISO 14064 (Carbon Verification) and ISO 14068 (Climate Change Management) use the term ‘Verification’ rather than ‘Certification’.

So, what’s the difference between the two?

Join Mel in this weeks’ episode as she explains the key differences between the terms ‘Certification’ and ‘Verification’ in relation to ISO Standards.

You’ll learn

• What is Certification?
• What is Verification?
• What is the difference between certification and verification?
• What’s involved with Verification?
• Is there a demand for Verification in the UK and overseas?

Resources

• The ISO Show
• Carbonology

In this episode, we talk about:

[00:25] Episode summary – Listeners familiar with the world of ISO will know of the term ‘Certification’, however the release of new Carbon related Standards such as ISO 14064 and ISO 14068 has brought in a new term: ‘Verification’

This episode, we’ll explain the difference between the two. If you’d like to learn more about ISO 14064 and ISO 14068, check out episode 72 and episode 158.

[02:00] What is Certification? – Quiet simply, Certification is for businesses who wish to certify an ISO Management system – so a company wishing to implement a Quality Management system to ISO 9001, would get the ISO System certified by an accredited Certification Body.

[02:25] What is Verification? – Verification is the confirmation of a claim, through the provision of objective evidence, that specified requirements have been fulfilled.  Therefore ISO 14064 the carbon footprint verification standard is a standard that is verified not certified.

The ‘claim’ or ‘statement’ is typically the QES ‘Qualifying Explanatory Statement’.  If you’d like to find out more about this, then checkout Episodes 91 to 97, where David Algar, Principal Carbonologist at Carbonology explains in more detail.

[03:35] Setting the record straight – Some organisations (and even Certification Bodies!) have been stating they have been certified to PAS 2060 or ISO 14064 – which is technically incorrect.

 As a certificate is not issued and they’re not certified.

[04:30] Think of Verification as an MOT: A simple analogy for Verification is a car MOT. This is an annual check to verify that a claim is correct, much like an MOT, someone must inspect evidence and check that everything is as claimed – not unlike checking under a car bonnet and checking tires to see if everything is in working order.

[05:20] What is the difference between accreditation for certification and verification bodies? –  For ISO Certification, certification bodies must adhere to ISO 17021:2015. This standard basically provides a requirements for bodies providing audit and certification of management systems, and applies to CB’s like BSI or NQA.

There are many others here in the UK, simply visit the UKAS website to find a list of accredited CB’s. In other countries, simply go to your national accreditation body website to find a full list.

[06:40] Accreditation for Verification Bodies – Verification Bodies need to adhere to ISO 17029, which was a Standard first published in 2019. That standards title is: Conformity assessment, general principles and requirements for validation and verification bodies.

Both Standards provide structure and governance to basically ensure that standards are either certified or verified to a level playing field.

[07:20] Watch out for the cowboys – Unfortunately, there are some fake third party so-called certification and verification bodies that offer certification and verification.

They do not adhere to either ISO 17025 or ISO 17029, and instead play by their own rules. Which results in utterly worthless (and very expensive) ‘certificates’ that won’t hold up under scrutiny in tendering applications. So please ensure you use an Accredited Certification or Verification Body!

[07:48] What are the differences between Certification and Verification? Certification in more detail – Certification of an ISO Management System means of providing assurance that the organisation has implemented a system, so they’ve got the policies, procedures and controls in place against the relevant activities for their products and services to be delivered.

Certification for management system provides that independence, that impartiality that the company is actually doing what they say that they’re doing, and that it’s effectively implemented.

If you want to get certified, you need to undertake an Assessment. Typically this is done in two parts – A Stage 1 Assessment is a document review and Stage 2 Assessment is the evidence to prove that the companies following its policies and procedures.

[09:35] What are the differences between Certification and Verification? Verification in more detail – There are actually 2 definitions for Verification:

1: The process for evaluating a statement of historical data and information to determine the statement is materially correct and conforms to criteria in 3.6.10.

2: It’s a confirmation of a claim through a provision of objective evidence that specified requirements have been fulfilled. There are a couple of notes with this one, including:

• Verification is considered to be a process for evaluating a claim based on historical data and information to determine whether the claim is materially correct and conforms with specified requirements.
• Verification is applied to claims regarding events that have already occurred are results that have already been obtained, confirmation of truthfulness.

[11:30] Avoiding Greenwashing – Now more than ever is the time to actually have systems in place to be able to verify that claims are factually correct.

A key thing to note with both Verification definitions is that they state you can only make a claim for a certain period – again, much like an MOT.

[12:55] What’s involved with Verification? – There are a few ways to gather the historical data needed for verifiers, here’s a few:

• Observation;
• Inquiry;
• Analytical testing;
• Confirmation;
• Recalculation;
• Examination;
• Retracing;
• Control testing;
• Estimate testing;
• Cross-checking;
• Reconciliation

From those terms alone, you can tell that this is a much more analytical approach than compared with Certification.

[14:30] What’s the current status of Verification in the UK and overseas (as of 2024) – In addition to being the Managing Director of Blackmores, Mel is also CEO of Carbonology – a sister company dedicated to Carbon Standards.

Across both companies, we’re seeing a lot of interest in Sustainability Standards such as ISO 14001 and ISO 50001.

At this current time, there is not so much of a demand for Verification and as such, there’s not a demand for third-party verification at this stage. There is however, a demand for an impartial second-party Verification to back up an organisations’ claims.

[16:15] Need any help with ISO 14064 or ISO 14068? – Get in contact with Carbonology and speak to our expert Carbonologists.  

If you’d like assistance with other ISO Standards, get in contact with Blackmores and we’ll be happy to help 😊

We’d love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here’s how:

• Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin
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Trying to achieve Carbon Neutrality can feel like a monumental task, especially with so many separate elements that you have to complete. From quantifying your data, reducing where possible and offsetting the remainder, it can be hard to keep track of it all with taking a structured approach.

Which is where ISO 14068 comes in. This is the new Standard for Climate Change Management, and it’s specially designed to help businesses with the transition to Net Zero.

In this weeks’ episode Mel explains 10 reasons why you should use ISO 14068 – the new Standard for Carbon Neutrality.   

You’ll learn

• What is ISO 14068?
• Why should you adopt ISO 14068?
• How can Carbonology Support you with ISO 14068?

Resources

• Carbonology
• Grab a copy of our Net Zero Planner
• ISO 14068

In this episode, we talk about:

[00:25] What is ISO 14068? – This is standard for Climate Change Management. If you’d like to find out more about the Standard, it’s purpose and how it can prevent green washing, go back and watch our previous episode.

[00:55] Where to find more information – This podcast is based off BSI’s most recent Publication on ISO 14068: ‘Climate Change Management – Transition to Net Zero – Part 1: Carbon Neutrality (A BSI Executive Briefing).

You can download this from a recent blog on BSI’s website.

[01:05] Reason 1: A structured approach – Mel found out firsthand from a recent EMEX event that people are looking for a structured approach to carbon neutrality.

ISO 14068 gives organisations a structured process for developing a detailed carbon neutrality management plan with short- and long-term targets.

[02:10] Reason 2: Quality – In contrast to unsubstantiated claims of neutrality, claims under ISO 14068 have to be based on all GHGs, take a lifecycle approach and can only be made after the development of long-term planning, with real GHG reductions in place, and offsetting restricted to residual emissions using high quality carbon credits.

[03:10] Reason 3: Credibility: Use of this internationally recognised standard can offer market benefits by increasing the credibility and verifiability of a product or organisational claim of carbon neutrality.

This Standard has been developed by international technical committees and subject matter experts across the globe, which gives it a lot more credibility in the eyes of Stakeholders. They will have confidence that claims are transparent and reliable from those who adopt ISO 14068.

[04:22] Reason 4: Global Recognition –  A quick reminder – Those who have been listening to the ISO Show for a while now may remember our previous podcasts on PAS 2060 – the previous Standard for Carbon Neutrality. Companies will now have 2 years to transition to ISO 14068. We’ll be doing a podcast on how to go about doing that in 2024!

Circling back to Global Recognition, ISO 14068 provides a common set of criteria for measuring and reporting carbon neutrality. This ensures consistency across different organizations and industries, underpins easer comparisons for carbon neutrality efforts between entities, allows stakeholders to assess and benchmark efforts, and supports global recognition for claims of carbon neutrality.

[05:30] Reason 5: Convenience – If you’ve already got other ISO’s in place, good news! ISO 14068 is designed to work with other quantification standards such as ISO 14064 or other equivalents.

[05:55] Reason 6: Flexibility – ISO 14068 can be used by any sized organisation, in any country or sector. It can also be applied to whole organisations or individual products.

[05:55] Reason 7: Responsibility – The standard encourages organisations to take responsibility for minimising their own carbon footprint before paying third parties to offset their emissions.

We’ve seen in the past where people think just paying for carbon credits will work in the long-term – which just isn’t sustainable. You should be looking to reduce as much as possible before moving onto the Offsetting stage.

[08:00] Reason 9: Risk Mitigation – Adopters of ISO 14068 will be in a strong position to manage current and emerging regulatory and market risks in relation to GHG emissions.

It’s a competitive market place out there, with ESG requirements appearing more on tenders year on year. Many will now require you to prove your commitment to carbon neutrality, and it’s become clear that we need Standards to be able to provide that evidence.

This is where ISO 14068 comes in, as you will have that proven methodology that you can then demonstrate to those stakeholders.

[09:30] Reason 10: Competitiveness –  ISO 14068 demonstrates a commitment to climate action can also mitigate reputational risks and enhance brand value, market access and competitiveness

[10:30] Further Information –  Our sister company, Carbonology, will be publishing more content around ISO 14068 in 2024. Check back on their website to find out more.

We’d love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here’s how:

• Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin
• Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

Subscribe to keep up-to-date with our latest episode’s:

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We’re inching closer to our 2030 and 2050 Net Zero targets, and if we keep going the way we are, we’re not going to hit either one.  

This is unsurprising considering the lack of a unified approach to achieving Net Zero. There are a lot of options to tackle certain aspects of sustainability, but few outline an entire pathway to guide businesses towards a tangible goal.

However, that may be set to change with the release of ISO 14068-1:2023 – Climate Change Management!

In this weeks’ episode Mel explains what BS ISO 14068 is, who can use the Standard, and how this Standard can combat green washing.  

You’ll learn

• What is ISO 14068?
• Who is this Standard for?
• Why was this Standard created?
• How can ISO 14068 help businesses to tackle climate change
• How can ISO 14068 help combat green washing

Resources

• Carbonology
• Grab a copy of our Net Zero Planner
• ISO 14068

In this episode, we talk about:

[00:25] Introduction and episode summary – ISO 14068 has just been published, superseding PAS 2060. In this episode, we’ll explore what this Standard is all about, how it can help you and help prevent green washing.

Keep an eye out for our follow-up episode, which will give you more insight into the 10 reasons for adopting this Standard to achieve Net Zero in 2024.

[01:40] A passion for Sustainability – If you’re new, you may not be aware that Mel is the CEO of both Blackmores and Carbonology. Carbonology was created as a sister company in 2023, and it’s sole purpose is to help businesses to be able to demonstrate with credibility and complete transparency – A legitimate route to achieving carbon neutrality.

[03:00]  What is ISO 14068-1:2023? – This is standard for businesses transitioning to Net Carbon zero.

The standard for specifies the requirements for achieving and demonstrating carbon neutrality through the quantification, reduction, removal and offsetting of greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions.

[03:30] Who can use this Standard? BS ISO 14068-1:2023 can be used by any organization, in the private or public sectors, that wishes to make either the organization or a product climate neutral. Products may be consumer-facing or business to business, and include all types of goods and services, including events and financial services.

[04:05] Why has this Standard been developed now?: To avoid the worst effects and keep the rise in global temperatures to no more than 1.5°C, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) of eminent scientists has identified that we need to cut emissions of greenhouse gases by 40% in this decade and to global net zero by 2050.

However, working towards a long-term target of net zero can be difficult without recognition of achievements along the pathway. That’s where carbon neutrality can help; organisations that have a clear plan and have started making real greenhouse gas (GHG) reductions can counterbalance their remaining carbon footprint using high quality carbon credits / offsets to achieve carbon neutrality.

ISO 14068-1 is the new International Standard that sets out requirements for organisations wishing to achieve carbon neutrality, including for products, such as goods, services or events.

ISO 14068-1 also provides a rigorous and robust framework for avoiding greenwashing, and builds on the 15 years’ experience of the previous Standard – PAS 2060.

Organizations using the standard will benefit in two main ways: internally, through having a clear guide on best practice in reaching carbon neutrality; and externally, by demonstrating compliance with a rigorous standard on carbon neutrality.

[06:40] How can the standard help businesses that are still scratching their heads about how to tackle climate change? –  The standard provides clear principles that entities need to consider when seeking carbon neutrality. These include establishing a hierarchy, so that GHG emission reductions are made first – and reductions are often the most cost-effective way of reducing a carbon footprint, avoiding the need for potentially costly carbon credits.

The hierarchy is then used to determine a pathway to carbon neutrality, including short- and long-term targets for minimising the carbon footprint. The standard also explains how the pathway is used in developing a detailed carbon neutrality management plan, which provides clear guidance for those responsible for the implementation of carbon neutrality.

[08:30] How can the standard combat green washing? In recent years, there have been many claims of carbon neutrality that are unsubstantiated or supported only by purchasing a few carbon credits, with a consequent risk of greenwashing.

Following BS ISO 14068-1 means organiations will be able to demonstrate that their claim of carbon neutrality is underpinned by real action to reduce GHG emissions and includes a clear pathway to eliminate all possible GHG emissions, so it does not just fall back on purchasing carbon credits in the market. This significantly improves the credibility of a claim.

[09:45] Keep an eye out for future episodes! We’ll be talking more about ISO 14068 in future episodes, including the benefits of adopting this Standard. We’ll also dedicate an episode to explaining the difference between Certification and Verification – so stay tunned!

We’d love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here’s how:

• Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin
• Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

Subscribe to keep up-to-date with our latest episode’s:

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The demand for tangible sustainability action is becoming more pressing as we inch closer to our 2030 and 2050 Net Zero targets.

However, that is still quite a way off, and many businesses are dragging their feet when it comes to taking action. Sure, some may have an ESG Policy or mention it on their website, however that term is starting to become synonymous with green washing due to poor implementation in many cases.

So, what can you do to make a difference right now?

In this weeks’ episode Mel explains the principle of Parkinson’s law, how ISO Standards can help to tackle climate change and how you can achieve Net Zero in just 90 days.

You’ll learn

• What Parkinson’s Law is
• How can ISO standards help tackle climate change
• The 3 reasons why businesses are behind on achieving net zero
• How you can achieve Net Zero in just 90 days using the Net Zero Planner

Resources

• Carbonology
• Register for EMEX here
• Grab a copy of our Net Zero Planner

In this episode, we talk about:

[00:25] Come visit the Carbonology stand at EMEX! – EMEX is a free exhibition to learn about carbon management, ESG and sustainability. It takes place at ExCeL London on 22nd – 23rd November 2023 – Carbonology will be at Stand G38. Come grab a free Net Zero Planner while you’re there! Register your place here.

[02:10] Episode Summary – Today we’ll be talking about why we need to act now rather than in a decade or two, how ISO Standards can play a critical role in tackling climate change and using the Net Zero Planner to help you set achievable objectives to work towards Net Zero in just 90 days.    

[02:55]  We need to act now rather than later! – Our 2030 and 2050 targets are very far away, which results in businesses not doing much to address them in the meantime.

They might have an ESG policy or they might have something referencing ESG on their website, but are they actually taking action right now to make that happen? In many cases, no. Which is where Parkinson’s Law comes into play.

[03:40] What is Parkinson’s Law? Parkinson’s Law is the idea that work expands to fill the time allotted for its completion. This may mean you take longer than necessary to complete a task or you procrastinate and complete the task right before the due date.

Parkinson’s Law is the old adage that work expands to fill the time allotted for its completion. The term was first coined by Cyril Northcote Parkinson in a humorous essay he wrote for “The Economist” in 1955.

Lets say you are given a task to complete a report in 3 weeks, chances are if you were given the task to do in 1 week – you’d make it happen.

Parkinson’s Law says that the perceived importance and difficulty of a task will grow in proportion to the amount of time given to finish it.

[05:30] Is it possible to achieve Net Zero in 2024?: Yes! Carbonology® been turning around projects to help businesses to build net carbon neutral in less than three months –  so why can’t you?

[06:05] The Net Zero Planner –  The Net Zero in 90 days planner gives you a pathway to follow to achieve Net Carbon Zero.

Each day focuses on a specific task, enabling you to make step by step progress to achieve your goals.

Your Net Zero Planner provides the foundations for not only achieving Net Zero but also achieving verification to Carbon standards along the way. Grab a copy here!

[08:25] What role do ISO Standards play in tackling climate change? Standards have a critical role in helping meet climate goals. Particularly when there is an influx of greenwashing across industries.

The international standards for carbon verification (ISO 14064) and carbon neutrality (PAS 2060, due to be ISO 14064 in 2024) support the Sustainable Development Goals (SDG) and create a level playing field, providing transparency, reliability, accountability and without a doubt, credibility.

[10:00] So why are businesses struggling to achieve Net Zero? there are three reasons why businesses are behind on achieving Net Zero:-

• Time and resources have not been dedicated.
• Lack of focus and structure
• Lack of knowledge on what to do

The Net Zero Planner will help to address these challenges.

[11:15] Carbonology is there to support you – Some of the tasks in the planner may be tricky – quantifying your emissions for example, this is always going to be challenging.

Carbonology is there to support you, either with consultancy or digital resources via the Carbonologyhub. If you need some extra assistance, simply contact them.

[11:55] How can the Net Zero Planner help you? –  First and foremost, Net zero is not going to happen, unless you prioritise your time.

This starts with designing your ideal week. Imagine how would you structure your week if you had 100% control. What does your ideal week look like?

Remember, What gets scheduled gets done.  Sticking to a plan takes discipline, but imagine if every business dedicated 2 hours a day for 3 months, we’d be achieving net zero well before 2050!

By setting aside 2 hours a day to complete a Net Zero task, you and your team will be well equipped to put your planning in place and achieve Net Zero accreditation! Of course, not every week will be aligned with your ideal week, but it’s a guide that you can refer back to.

 [13:00] Making progress with the Net Zero Planner –  It’s imperative you review progress on a weekly and monthly basis and at the end of the 9O days. This will help to drive momentum when you see what you’ve achieved and also provide a reality check if you need additional support or time.

The weekly, monthly and quarterly review provides an opportunity to look back at your progress and allows you time to reflect on what went well, and where you’ve been having challenges which may result in making decisions to address any shortfalls.

 This could include allowing more time for a specific task the following week, delegating responsibilities internally or outsourcing activities i.e. carbon quantification or verification.

It’s recommended that you schedule this review and reflection time in your calendar i.e. 1 hour on a Friday afternoon or at the end of the month. In addition to the structured planner pages, there are blank pages for expanding on your ideas and taking notes.

[15:25] Special Deal! –  The Net Zero Planner is available for Amazon at a reduced price of £7.99 until the 15^th December 2023. The Standard price will be £14.99. If you’re at EMEX on the 22^nd or 23^rd November 2023, we have 100 free copies to give away!

Lastly, if you have an questions or would like to learn more about how Carbonology can help you, feel free to book a call in via David’s Calendly.

We’d love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here’s how:

• Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin
• Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

Subscribe to keep up-to-date with our latest episode’s:

Stitcher | Spotify | YouTube | iTunes | Soundcloud |

One of the most common reasons why businesses look to achieve certification is because a client or prospective client is demanding it.  Questions are often asked in tenders such as do you have an Environmental policy? A complaints procedure? Data privacy controls? And of course do you have ISO 9001 (the quality standard)? Or ISO 14001 (the Environmental Management Standard)?

These answers accrue points and when bidding for a contract, the more points you can get the better chance you have of winning that lucrative contract, which could bring your company 1 – 3 years of high value revenue and profit.

So why are ISO Standards, Policies and Procedures mentioned in tenders?

And why should you look to align your business with quality, environmental and risk standards?    

Join Mel on today’s episode as she shares 10 reasons why ISO Standards can help businesses win tenders.

You’ll learn

• Why are ISO Standards mentioned in Tenders?
• The difference between accredited and non-accredited certification bodies
• 10 Reasons why ISO Standards can help to win Tenders

Resources

• isologyhub

In this episode, we talk about:

[00:55] Based on 17 years of running four businesses relating to ISO standards, Mel estimates that 8 out of 10 businesses that look to achieve certification is because they want to win or retain a client contract.

[01:35] If you’ve got your Policies, Procedures, Standards and systems in place, it does make the whole process of bidding for tenders a lot easier, in addition to giving you a greater chance of winning those tenders.

[02:30] Reason #1: Proof that you have achieved the highest standards – Put yourself in your clients’ shoes – would you rather work with a company that pays lip service to protecting your valuable data? Or that they have over 100 controls to manage your data in the security? (Such as in the Standard for Information Security – ISO 27001)  

One of the main reasons your clients will be looking for your company to be certified to an  ISO as because it demonstrates that you operate your business to the highest global standards.

[04:00] Reason #2: Demonstrates independent 3rd party certification –  This means that its not just you that claims that your business has good health and safety controls in place – an ISO certified business has to prove that its compliant year after year.  Being certified is proof that you practice what you preach and that there is evidence to back this up.

[04:50] Be careful – know the difference between accredited and non-accredited certification – Go back and watch episode 19 to learn more.

[05:45] Reason #3: Recognised across the globe – Passport to trade – When organisations are looking to expand internationally, ISO certification is often a requirement to deliver services or provide products overseas.  This is because ISO Standards are recognised globally as they way businesses should be run.

ISO’s aren’t just passports to trade internationally – they are also passports to trade in certain sectors.  For example in Construction – you aren’t going to get very far in tenders if you don’t have ISO 9001 (Quality), ISO 14001 (Environment) and ISO 45001 (Health and Safety).

[08:40] Reason #4 – USP – Many organisations adopt ISO Standards to give them a competitive edge and score more points in a tender.  For example, let’s say you’re bidding for a public sector contract worth £2 million, and they are very keen on their suppliers verifying their carbon footprint and being carbon neutral. It would give you a massive competitive edge if you could prove this and demonstrate evidence, once such way would be to get certified to ISO 14064 (Carbon Verification) and PAS 2060 (Carbon Neutrality). If you’d like to learn more about those Standards, go back and listen to episodes 72 and 73.

Note: PAS 2060 is set to become an ISO in the near future! Keep an eye out for news concerning ISO 14068…

[11:55] Reason #5: Risk Management – ISO Standards help to significantly reduce risk.  This is why certified business have lower insurance costs and win more business.  All businesses need effective risk management – even Law Firms.  Over the last few years, we’ve seen more and more law firms achieve certification to ISO 27001 (Info Sec), ISO 27701 (GDPR) and business continuity (ISO 22301).

[13:20] Reason #6: Meeting customer requirements –  The one thing that a client outsourcing services expects as a minimum is that you actually meet their needs. It’s not much to ask is it? Though, you would be surprised how many businesses operate without processes!

ISO Standards help to define what your processes, and provide a blueprint for how you run your business – therefore providing clients with a standardised approach that is repeatable and guarantees high standards of quality products and services time and time again.

[14:30] Reason #7: Reduce ambiguity –  ISO Standards set out very clear specification – Many of them require certain documents that non-certified businesses often don’t have.

One such example is a process for dealing with problems, otherwise known as ‘Non-conformities’ in the ISO world. Businesses shouldn’t just bury their heads in the sand, they should have a system in place to log issues / customer complaints, rectify the issue and put preventative measures in place to prevent a recurrence.

[16:05] Reason #8: Industry specific standards –  Certain ISO Standards prove that you meet the highest quality best practice standards for your industry.

Not every industry has specific ISO Standards – but an example of this may be an events company that wants to stand out by being sustainable. ISO 20121 (Sustainable Event Management) would give them a huge advantage over competitors.

[17:10] Reason #9: Competent personnel with clear accountability and responsibility –  ISO Standards do stipulate that you have people that actually know what they’re talking about, in some cases, for businesses that don’t have ISO’s, this can be a bit of a steep learning curve.

If you’re looking to gain some basic competency in ISO Standards – check out our online learning platform, the isologyhub.

[18:10] Reason #10: Gives assurance to clients for a period of 3 years – ISO Standards are continuously maintained over a 3-year cycle.  It’s not a case of passing an assessment then waving goodbye to the systems you’ve got in place to run the business. 

You have to prove continued compliance through annual surveillance audits, and recertify after 3 years.

We’d love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here’s how:

• Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin
• Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

Subscribe to keep up-to-date with our latest episode’s:

Stitcher | Spotify | YouTube | iTunes | Soundcloud |